Kick It Naturally – Cellulite-The Mystery
T.C. Hale is not a doctor and does not claim to be a doctor, licensed in any type of medical field. Don’t be an idiot and use anything heard on this show as medical advice. This information should be used for educational purposes only and you should contact your doctor for any medical advice. Now get off me.
Kinna: Welcome to Kick It Naturally, I’m Kinna McInroe, and I’m here with
T.C Hale, author, natural health expert, producer, my boss…
Tony: And sugar hander outer.
Kinna: Well, sugar taker awayer.
Tony: Oh! Dun dun dun dun! That doesn’t sound that friendly.
Kinna: That’s not very nice.
Tony: Let’s listen to you cry.
Kinna: Yeah. I’m crying on the inside. Actually I’m crying on the outside.
Tony: She can cry on cue, it’s not a big deal.
Kinna: Uh huh, I’m an actress.
Tony: Act it up.
Kinna: Yeah, so to my left you can’t see it, but hottie patottie Schmidt here today, Will?
Will: We’re just going by my last name now like high school?
Kinna: Yeah, you’re just Schmidt.
Tony: What’s up, Schmidt?
Kinna: Yeah, have you seen that movie, “What About Schmidt”?
Will: I haven’t seen that.
Kinna: Oh, you got to see it. Kathy Bates gets totally naked in it. Just so you know.
Kinna: In the hot tub. All right. So today we have a topic that all you women, myself included, and there’s a couple of men out there I’ve noticed, um, what’s up with cellulite?
Tony: Yeah, what’s up with cellulite?
Kinna: Cellulite you’re pissing me off is actually the topic today.
Tony: So we’ll be taking your calls to find out what is the deal with cellulite.
Tony: Go ahead and call in now.
Kinna: Yeah, we’ve got our phone lines setup they’re ringing off the wall.
Tony: Nobody’s calling, so I guess we’ll just make up stuff.
Tony: I wonder how many of those panels are actually like real blinking lights or are they all just like you know props?
Kinna: And people that call in pretend they’re a radio station and then change their name.
Tony: Yeah, we don’t really have any phones if you’re trying to dial right now.
Kinna: Uh huh, there’s no phones here and plus you’ll be dialing into the future, which will be the past by the time you hear it.
Will: That’s trippy.
Kinna: So um, okay, if you have not liked us on Facebook you’re like the only person in America who hasn’t. So go ahead, stop whatever you’re doing, go to kick it in the nuts and like us. That’s where we post all our show topics and questions that you want to ask, you can ask or you can even give us some ideas for show topics cause we’re running out.
Will: Uh huh.
Tony: We’re done. Next week is Legos. I really like Legos.
Kinna: We can do some cuticles.
Will: We’d love to keep it health related, so if you’d throw us a bone.
Tony: If not, the space Legos on the new Star Wars series are a lot of fun. We’ll probably just cover that.
Kinna: So, cellulite.
Tony: Okay, we’ll talk about it.
Kinna: What the hell? Why?
Tony: Let’s talk about it. Why do we got to have it? Why don’t we get right into questions, um, because I think that this is one of those topics to where like do you know what Tinnitus is? I don’t even know if I’m saying that right, but it’s like a ringing in the ear.
Kinna: It’s when you play tennis.
Tony: Tinnitus is ringing in the ears and what I see a lot with that is that when people come to me for help and we fix things…
Kinna: They’ve got bells in their ears.
Tony: Yeah, they do they have bells in their ears, but if we fix a few things it just kind of stops and the main thing that we fix is digestion. When this happens and I’ve seen this 6 or 7 times and I have no idea why this helps it. I have no idea why after someone’s had this ringing for years that it will just stop. When we get into cellulite it’s going to be similar. Because there’s some things that we’re going to explain, there are some theories that we’re going to explain, we’re going to explain some things that we see people do when it improves, but I really, I have no idea really why it improves because some of the things that make sense to me sometimes don’t. That’s just how I feel about. But I think that some things, some bells are going to go off.
Kinna: In your ear and they’ll ring.
Will: And then you’ll have Tinnitus.
Tony: Okay, so let’s just go right into some questions and we’ll talk about that.
Kinna: Alicia, cellulite is a bumpy road for us women. Ahhh! Good one, Alicia. Meg, where does it come from? I say hell. Peggy, Honolulu, Hawaii. Why don’t men have to deal with this? I have seen a couple of men have it.
Tony: It seemed to upset you?
Kinna: It did. Because it’s not normal or natural in my opinion.
Tony: And some men can have it. One misconception is that most people view it as that it’s an obesity thing. It’s when you’re overweight or a specific part of your body has a lot of extra body fat.
Kinna: Skinny women have it all the time.
Tony: Yeah, a lot of skinny women have it all the time and we talk a lot about skinny fat on the show.
Kinna: I just laugh when I see a skinny woman with cellulite. I’m like hahaha, she got something. She got something.
Will: You ain’t fat, but you ain’t got it.
Tony: So it is common when someone is overweight, but it’s almost just as common with someone that is not overweight. So it doesn’t have to be an excess body fat situation. We’ll get into that a little bit, but just to kind of introduce what we’re looking at when we see cellulite, um, what happens is there’s these fibrous chords or bands. This is going to be hard to explain on the radio, but we’re just going to pretend. Um, but there are these bands that go between muscle and skin. So if you look at right under your epidermis, which is the outer part is your dermis, and that’s like another layer of your skin and then under that are like layers of fat and then below that are muscles and stuff. So connecting from the muscle up to that layer of your skin is like this little chord, so think of it like you’re looking into a jail cell. Like somebody’s in jail. And the floor is like muscle and the bars that keep them in that jail cell are the bands or the chords and then the roof is your skin. So if you picture it like that, in this jail cell that we’re talking about you would have I don’t know a bunch of beach balls or something that would represent fat. That layer of fat should be there. We all have that there, but what happens is if there’s excess fat in there, it can like push on the ceiling. If you had all these beach balls in there you would push on the ceiling, but everywhere where there’s a bar, that ceiling would be a little bit lower cause it’s still connected to that bar and then all around that bar the beach balls would be pushing up and that kind of creates that dimpling visual effect. Where it looks like the skin of an orange or cottage cheese or whatever they say, there’s a dimpling effect that goes on. And that’s kind of what creates it is the excess fat pushing up when the fibrous bands are kind of pulling down. So we’ll get into some kind of ins and outs of what’s going on when that happens but that’s kind of like a visual to understand why does it dimple up and why isn’t it just smooth fat.
Kinna: And most men don’t have it cause they don’t have the fat that women have? Cause women have more fat on their bodies in general?
Tony: Well, one thing is that layer actually both layers of the skin with men tend to be thicker. Both the epidermis and dermis, so if you think about the ceiling of that jail cell, I don’t know why I’m doing jail cell so much?
Kinna: Yeah, yeah.
Will: It could be an office, like in “Office Space”.
Kinna: I feel like I’m in jail here.
Tony: So, um, but if that layer was thicker and stronger than it would be harder to push it up, so to speak.
Kinna: Actors typically have a thicker layer of skin cause they have to.
Tony: Right, cause they get rejected so much. So you think that that would wipe out cellulite?
Kinna: Wipe out cellulite in the industry.
Will: It just wipes out the actors that can’t.
Tony: They just become plumbers, so that’s one reason that a lot people believe that a lot of guys don’t deal with it. It’s just because the places where cellulite shows up the most the skin there tends to be thicker. It makes sense that, not that it’s just unfair or something that guy’s skin is thicker, but you know there are different things in the body from men to women. We have different parts you probably knew about that?
Will: What do you mean?
Tony: But, um, there’s also things that have to do with reproductive systems for females.
Kinna: Hormones, estrogen, or anything like that?
Tony: Stuff like that could play a part, but you know, women have fat around organs that you know men don’t have. It’s like this protective layer that you know, so there are things in male and female body’s that are just different and this is just one of those things that happens. There wasn’t a meeting about that.
Kinna: Why do men have it all great and women have it all poopy? I don’t get it.
Tony: Because we’re men and we were hoping it would go that way.
Will: It’s a man’s world.
Kinna: It is a man’s world. Didn’t you hear Patricia Arquette?
Tony: One thing that’s fun is that you know people didn’t know this before but we generally know now that as a gender guys are kind of dumber.
Tony: It’s just turning out to be that way we didn’t think that was the case for a long time, but it just turns out….
Kinna: They’re stronger physically, but dumber.
Tony: But kind of dumb and I’m fine with that.
Will: We can also look at like, not just whether you’re a guy or a girl, but also just hormones in general. The hormones that tend to be more abundant in females, like estrogen, can also be overly abundant in a male.
Kinna: Uh huh.
Will: And you’ll see like…
Kinna: Men with man boobs who aren’t really heavy.
Will: Right, for example like bodybuilders who take steroids and they don’t do it right. Like the testosterone goes through aromatase and turns into estrogen and they develop adipose tissue in stereotypically female deposits like man boobs and that kind of thing. So we can see that occur not just from being female, but from like the hormones that typically are associated with being a female. Which can happen to a male, but that also empowers you if you start to look at like the different things that you can do to sort of balance your hormones as a woman and minimize the stresses of estrogen and insulin and things like that to help preserve your cellular integrity. Cause those female hormones are, they’re often times misunderstood, and one of our favorite thinkers is Ray Peat and he says a lot about this about estrogen being misunderstood. It’s not just like a good female hormone that just needs to be there when you’re very womanly, he re-categorizes estrogen as a stress hormone. That your body releases for tactical purposes, but there are a lot of things in our diet and in our environment.
Kinna: Like sugar probably?
Will: Sugar’s one, but also like the imbalance of amino acids we get in our diet like not enough glycine and too much tryptophan can elevate things like the stress hormones like serotonin and estrogen and cause degradation to the integrity of the collagen making up our skin. So we can see at the cellular level the impact of the deformity and weakness of collagen coming from energy deprivation not having available fuel and cellular integrity because of the stress hormones that are overly active.
Tony: So let’s dig into that a bit before we do other questions cause that’s going to be a big point here is the whole collagen situation in our skin. So, we have to look at two factors when we’re digging into this because #1, okay so we’ve established that women get cellulite more then men because their skin is thicker, but that in itself can vary greatly from woman to woman for a lot of different reasons. And one of those reasons could be the lack of consuming foods that contain collagen or the ability to digest those foods and break those down into usable nutrients that contain collagen.
Tony: Say words about that, Will.
Will: Words about that. So in our modern diet we have, especially in America, we have very few foods that are rich in the amino acids that help us make healthy collagen. So we don’t eat a lot of bone broth soups and we don’t eat a lot of like weird animal parts like chicken feet and fish heads and that kind of thing. We don’t do that. Instead we have mostly like flesh proteins or weird plant proteins that we think are healthy.
Will: So, we’re super deficient in the most needed amino acids in our body which the most important one being glycine, which makes up most of collagen, which makes up most of your body, as far as proteins are concerned. So when we don’t have nearly as much glycine, we’re still eating protein, but we’re usually eating it from like, if you’re eating a lot of flesh foods, then you’re usually getting a lot of tryptophan and cystine which promote estrogen which promotes a stress situation and weakens the collagen or you’re eating a lot of plant foods that are almost completely deficient of glycine.
Tony: Right, cause, you know, veganism, vegetarian is very popular now. Like you see movies like, “Forks Over Knives”, or something it was actually sponsored by an organization named, “Let’s have cellulite”. But, you know, so we’re taught that, oh, you have to stop eating animal foods and it’s just killing you and you have to be a vegan and so everybody switched over and oops! You know, I was one of those people that switched over and Will was one of those people that switched over, until we found out that we were in the wrong camp and we snuck out very very quietly.
Tony: Um, but it’s important to get those nutrients. You know, a hundred years ago when there was an animal that was cooked, they took off the parts that they were going to eat, but then they put everything else in that big pot and they made soup and they cooked it for a couple of days and it pulls all of those, you know, that gelatin and all that collagen and all that good stuff all those co-factor amino acids that are found in those animal proteins and by pulling it into a soup like that it makes it very easy to assimilate. So even if someone doesn’t have great digestion, they could get all those when it was leftover Thursday and you were eating that soup that had all the carcass in it.
Tony: We don’t do cool soups anymore.
Will: No, and if you’re a woman with cellulite….
Tony: Now soup is like alphabet soup. Like that’s all you get is like carbohydrate noodles and they’re shaped like letter “c”.
Will: Yeah, right. And I think it’s really helpful to target esthetic motivations for people cause this can help them get out of the like band camp of like a vegan or vegetarian diet…
Kinna: Work on their vanity.
Kinna: You want to be prettier?
Will: I don’t want to kill animals, but I hate cellulite even more than that so, but for overall health reasons, I’ve rarely, maybe once, in one person’s chemistry that I helped looked at, saw a healthy long term vegan. Like most of them are very deficient in nitrogen and yes, it’s true you can get all the amino acids from combinations of plant proteins, but no it’s not true that you can get them in the ideal ratios. You can’t do that.
Tony: Right and it’s not something that just a B12 shot can fix. There are co-factors and other things in there that are important and anytime we talk or anytime we mention the word vegan, I like to suggest, hey, listen to our episode on vegan and vegetarian stuff because we do point out the benefits that people experience when they switch over and why things can go better initially and then what can happen later on and we explain why people never think, oh, it’s because I am on a vegan diet it’s because the first couple of weeks they felt better. We explain all that stuff and we explain the mistakes that we made when we did that so, don’t just think that we’re bashing something. Just for fun. Even though it’s a little bit fun.
Will: It’s pretty fun.
Tony: But listen to our episode especially if you are a vegan. We talk about the fact that if you’re vegan because of ethical or religious reasons or something like that, we don’t want you to switch over cause that’s a whole other….
Kinna: So keep your cellulite and your conscious.
Tony: Yeah and be happy with it and be fine.
Will: Even if you are a committed, there are things that you can learn to do with supplementation. Like taking glycine could help in some ways.
Kinna: But even like if you are, you’re not killing an egg. You know what I mean?
Will: Well, it’s a whole…
Kinna: I don’t know. I’d think they could have eggs. They get really impassioned. You scare me vegans.
Will: It’s a whole debate.
Tony: Right, but if I have a vegan who’s willing to eat eggs, I’m happy.
Tony: And I’m like, okay, that’s good enough. I’m fine with that, but back to cellulite, well, let’s see…is it time for a commercial break?
Kinna: It might be. Remember when we didn’t have a sponsor? Well, that was silly. So now, audible.com is giving all of our listeners a FREE audio book of their choice just by us saying audible.com.
Tony: Now 3 people can get one.
Kinna: Yep. To find the link go to kickitinthenuts.com/audiobook. And guess what? Kick Your Fat In The Nuts is on audiobook now, y’all.
Tony: Oh, you can get it for FREE?
Kinna: You can get it for FREE. You can listen to it. It’s not my lovely voice or Tony’s. It’s someone else that we don’t know.
Tony: One we’ve never even met. He did a great job.
Kinna: Probably from India or something, you know?
Will: Is it in an Indian accent?
Tony: No, but I should’ve done that. That would’ve been fantastic.
Will: Like a Lakota Indian, you mean?
Tony: Uh huh. Like you’re just calling tech support or something.
Kinna: You want to eat meat. (In a bad Indian accent) So, yeah, it’s a good fancy book.
Will: That’s cool.
Kinna: I like it. I had to read it a bunch.
Tony: Uh huh. So let’s go back to another thing that Will was saying though, now that we’re back from our commercial break, I think is what happened.
Kinna: I’ll stop my commercial voice now.
Tony: Yeah, so, one of the problems is that if a person’s not getting enough collagen into the system and all those co-factors that the body needs to build that skin so that it can be strong and vigorous, uh whatever you want to call it, but another issue is that when someone’s not bringing in enough nutrients, maybe their digestion is not fully breaking food down into nutrients. Or the food that they’re eating is piss poor and doesn’t contain much nutrients. Either of those issues, what will happen is the body will still need those nutrients and it will start to shop from YOU! Like you’re the 7 Eleven that your body is shopping from and it will break down tissue in order to pull nutrients out that are needed for all kinds of other functions.
Tony: So it’s different for every person where the body decides to pull tissue out of like when the body needs protein, it pulls it out of the lungs a lot of times, but some people may have nutrients pulled out of those skin area type tissues more than others because, you know, we’ve changed, you don’t need to have such thick skin so much. You’re not tackling cougars to make dinner anymore. You might get a paper cut or something? You know, we’re not like what we used to be, so maybe the body has adapted in a good way like hey, I’ll take some nutrients here since they are not as important since the person’s probably going to need their lungs.
Will: Yeah and there are probably a lot of other places that it’s drawing from as well on the inside.
Will: Like Osteoporosis type symptoms could be coming from deamination of the skeletal system for resources and that you may find that occurring also. Like if you’re accumulating cellulite look at your bone density levels and see like you may have very elevated blood calcium levels from that going on.
Tony: We’re going to talk about that too. That’s going to be a big one. I really have a thing about that and I think I’m fancy because I think this, so we’re just going to talk about it.
Will: That’s cool. I think I have a fancy thing to say about it too.
Tony: Oh good.
Kinna: Boys, you both have fancy things to say.
Will: But we also…are we going to mention Vitamin C?
Tony: Let’s mention Vitamin C.
Kinna: Vitamin C.
Tony: Good job, Kinna.
Will: So, if like you’re deplete of Vitamin C, which a lot of people can be because maybe they’re not eating it on a regular basis or maybe you’re eating something that’s depleting you of Vitamin C, like too much sugar or you smoke or something like that. There are a lot of things that make you use up the Vitamin C that it has and that’s a problem because without Vitamin C, you can’t form healthy collagen. And if you’re dealing with cellulite you want to do everything you can to strengthen your collagen. So you’ve got to get a regular source of a whole food natural form of Vitamin C. Like it’s different than say like the Emergency packets of just ascorbic acid. In the real world nature made Vitamin C as this complex thing that’s like 12 different co-factors and one of those things is ascorbic acid, which we use sometimes to lower urine pH. You need the whole food form source so you can get that from like acerola cherry or camu- camu those are very high Vitamin C low sugar sources. Other natural like citrus fruits have Vitamin C also, but Vitamin C is essential for cross linking of the collagen and amino acids to occur so without that cross linking the Vitamin C is just mushy mesh.
Tony: Right and what happens let’s say that you’re using Emergency for some ignorant reason. Or you’re just using something that’s just ascorbic acid to get your source of Vitamin C. It is important because humans are one of the only mammals that don’t make their own Vitamin C. Everybody else showed up at the meeting and said we want Vitamin C.
Will: Pigs and hamsters, they don’t?
Tony: Guinea Pigs don’t and primates. I think is what it is.
Tony: Uh, but yeah, everybody else said we want to make our own and we were like looking at something else in the corner cause we got nothing. So, it’s important to get in Vitamin C, but if you’re just taking this like fractionated form of ascorbic acid or like an Ester C type situation where it’s just a fraction of it, what happens is you take that in and your body can’t use it as Vitamin C, unless it pulls all the other co-factors from your body. After about two weeks or so, people usually run out of those co-factors and they’re still taking this C that’s not really doing anything. So we use the acerola cherry like you were saying we use an Empirical Labs product called Bio C, which is a whole food form of C. There’s another one on the market that you can get at most Whole Foods from Garden of Life and it’s called Living C. Um, so there are things available out there, but don’t just swing by Costco and go and get a bucket of Vitamin C and think that that’s going to fix the problem because it won’t. So yeah, that’s pretty important and Vitamin C is used in the body for pretty much every single repair process. Which is a lot. So it’s pretty easy for people to be deficient.
Will: Yeah, especially if your body is in like a high stress state. Like if you have really elevated cortisol or estrogen levels or blood sugar and triglyceride damage. You’re going to be using up that Vitamin C all the time to repair stuff and pretty soon you’re not going to have enough to go around to all your healthy collagen cells.
Tony: Right and stress is just one thing. I mean somebody could be drinking tap water and bringing in all that fluoride and chlorine. You know there are lots of things that could come into the body that Vitamin C could be expended to help remove safely. So those are big deals. The collagen stuff, you know the Vitamin C, so that there are building blocks to rebuild so it kind of helps us understand why some people’s layers of skin may be thinner, which cause those dimpling effects to show up more than it might in other people.
Kinna: Jani, from Danville, California. Why is it always on the thighs? Well, I think it is most of the times on the thighs, but believe me, I’ve noticed a little on my arms. I call them my flaps.
Will: The old English teacher’s arms?
Kinna: Yeah, the old English teacher’s arms, except I’m hopefully not that old yet. How do you get rid of that?
Will: I mean I think this points even just further at like the fact that it is a matter of like tissue integrity cause when you think of it your like oh yeah, it does occur on the arms of people, but when you think about like even older guys, like old men, they’ve got all sorts of like sagging skin that’s lacking all that density and they’re like super thin and frail that could also look a lot like cellulite if they had just a little more flesh on their bones.
Tony: Another thing too is that it is most common on thighs, hips and buttocks. That’s the most common area that you’re going to see it and I think that that’s the place where women store fat the most.
Kinna: Cause they have babies.
Tony: Men do more in the gut area, but that’s a favorite spot for women to store fat. Remember that it’s the expanding fat cells, which is pushing on that skin and causing the dimpling effect. So if you remove the stored fat you can reduce the amount of dimpling that occurs, unless you’re dealing with the skinny fat situation. Which we should probably just…
Kinna: Or if you’ve lost a lot of weight. I mean that’s another thing, saggy skin from losing a lot of weight sometimes it goes away, sometimes it tightens up, sometimes it doesn’t.
Tony: I think saggy skin is a different beast than cellulite. I think that’s a….
Kinna: Yeah, but it kind of looks like cellulite on there. I don’t know, maybe it’s not.
Will: Maybe the important connection between the two whether they’re slightly different in the way you’re describing the dynamics of like the whole jailhouse scenario vs. like saggy skin is both situations like whether you’re trying to lose a lot of weight and you’ve got the saggy situation or cellulite they both require tissue remodeling of healthy collagen. Like to look good, which is the goal, for people who are dealing with either of these issues.
Will: So in both cases we’re going to want to do as much as we can to support healthy collagen production. Which requires the right proteins and the ability to digest them and the right macronutrients that we need to make healthy cells overall.
Kinna: You know I bought this thing on Amazon and I’m scared to use it, but I’m gonna pull it out and I’m gonna use it. It’s a little roller.
Tony: Just be prepared to edit. Go ahead.
Kinna: It’s a little roller and it has little needles all in it and you roll it on your skin and it makes tiny little abrasions which causes the collagen and stuff to have more production and to heal the skin and people…
Tony: So you’re almost like stressing the skin so that it rebuilds correctly?
Kinna: Yeah, it rebuilds and stuff, so would that help, cause it’s supposed to help with like stretch marks, cellulite, saggy skin, loose skin, wrinkles, I mean it’s supposed to pretty much help everything. So, I’m going to do my whole body.
Will: You’re just going to roll on this pin?
Tony: You’ll come in covered in blood.
Kinna: Covered in sores.
Will: It’s home acupuncture.
Kinna: Yeah, they’re just tiny little bitty needles. And the thing about it is like you have to really like soak it in alcohol cause you could get like infections in your skin and that wouldn’t be good.
Tony: It sounds like a lot of fun.
Kinna: Yeah, yeah.
Tony: Did you happen to read any of the reviews on Amazon?
Kinna: I did and a friend did it and his skin looked amazing and he said well, I’m using this.
Tony: Like all the reviews are like call 911.
Kinna: Yeah, exactly and you do see people online, cause I YouTubed it, where people go insane and they just keep doing it until their skin is bleeding.
Kinna: But I wouldn’t do it to that level and I did buy numbing cream too.
Kinna: And I plan on drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels when I do it.
Tony: So to bring some science into this for just a moment you do see a lot of other people using like coffee grounds and scrubbing, you know, you know the loofa kind of thing.
Kinna: Yeah, exfoliating.
Tony: And I’m fine with that as something that you want to do, but I think the reason that everybody doesn’t see success with that cause if you’re not fixing what’s going on from the inside you’re just irritating the skin and it still doesn’t have the ability to rebuild correctly.
Will: Yeah, I think esthetically it could look better for a moment because of all the inflammation.
Kinna: Yeah, you get puffy. Yeah, swollen.
Will: No, seriously. Yeah, like it’s not just like the saggy collagen now you have extra edema from puncture wounds and I do really think that that’s what’s happening. You’re going to get inflammation that’s going to make it look smoother in this puffy, irritated, damaged way, but when your body heals, well hopefully it’ll heal….
Kinna: I’ll have more color too. I’ll be really red.
Will: Yeah, if you just keep doing it, I guess you could stay inflamed, but I just don’t think that’s going to bring health to the area.
Kinna: Well, if it was like he was saying you’re working on everything from the inside out and that in conjunction.
Tony: I’m fine with you doing that on top of everything else. Right.
Will: Once. Do it once.
Tony: Yeah, not coming in all bloody.
Kinna: Scabbed over.
Tony: Yeah, so that’s kind of the thighs thing and I know women get very upset about this cause let’s go to the skinny fat thing a little bit cause women do all this work to lose weight, but then they still have cellulite and then they’re like okay, I’m going to be furious now. So let’s talk a little bit about the skinny fat situation.
Kinna: There’s a skinny fat girl on here. Should I read her?
Tony: Yeah, read hers.
Kinna: Paige, from Burleson, Texas. Woohoo and help are my comments. I am that skinny fat person you talk about.
Tony: So we do get callers during the show. Cause she did hear us, that’s really great I guess.
K&W: Yeah, yeah.
Tony: Um, yeah, so when we look at this situation someone can be skinny, but still have tissue that is not built correctly. You know it’s kind of been mined away at kind of stuff, so it’s just kind of gush.
Tony: Talk about gush, Will.
Will: Gush, yeah, I think like we can see this not only in a catabolic person, but like we mentioned earlier in that person who might be experiencing things like Osteoporosis or the process of Osteoporosis generating. What’s off a lot of times in these people’s chemistry is the way that their body is making energy is not efficient. They end up producing a lot more free radical damage that goes along with the dirty way that they’re making energy. So along with the calcium that’s being pulled into the bloodstream, they’re getting a lot of free radical damage and lactic acid accumulation because their mitochondria their cells are not really making energy in a clean efficient way. With that, we’ll see a lot of like changes in collagen fibers that will start to occur from these, they’re called cations, like if there’s excess calcium in the blood, these cations can damage the structure of the collagen and stimulate genes in the collagen to change configuration and actually change shape. We see that in Osteoarthritis and cataracts that occur. That kind of free radical damage is known and a lot of studies that show that collagen will actually change shape do to that oxidation damage.
Tony: Right and some people do have the theory that the bands have just become too taut. Like they don’t, you know, cause they’re supposed to be flexible kind of moving about type of stuff and some to them don’t have that ability, so where the skin used to expand a little bit it’s kind of creating some of those dimples. So, that’s one theory that’s out there that could make some sense. Um, but, yeah, even if someone doesn’t have excess fat pushing the skin out it’s almost like the muscle has atrophied and all of the connective tissue in there has kind of changed it’s formation due to it’s loss of a lot of it’s structure. It’s structural compounds. So it kind of goes back to the person needs the resources to make that skin healthy, rebuilt, smooth skin.
Will: Uh huh, yeah and looking at like the way, not only having the nutrients to build the body, but also to create energy in a clean way is really important for that because without the cells ready supply of sufficient energy, not only will they not function right, but they also can’t maintain their form as effectively. We’ve seen like it takes energy for the cells to maintain their own structure and integrity, so we can see this sort of like collapse and change in the collagen matrix, like the way the collagen’s all bound together and the individual cells of the collagen themselves. And part of it can look like a collapse and failure of energy supply to maintain their form and another part of it could be looked at it like gene activation change in the collagen to try to configure itself in a way that it can endure the stresses of the situation more, like a callous on your hand. The stress causing the skin to like be raised so it’ll form a denser like collagen matrix.
Kinna: Hm…so let’s get calloused all over your body.
Will: In a way little micro callouses you could look at it like that or the collapse of the collagen due to energy deficiency.
Tony: And the other thing about cellulite is that I can almost guarantee that it’s not caused by the exact situation each person. It can be a variation of these things from person to person and that’s why some cellulite looks different than other types so I don’t think that there is one answer. That’s going to fit every single person. Just all of these things are options that could be contributing to it.
Kinna: Lisa, is there truly a way to get rid of it? Lisa, weren’t you listening? We’ve been talking about collagen…
Tony: She must now have just called in.
Kinna: Yeah, she just called in too late.
Tony: Yeah and so what we see a lot is just that once someone has fixed digestion they start to oh, I shouldn’t eat a Zagnut bar for lunch every day and they start to put in real food and now they can break it down and pull real nutrients out of it, that as they do this and they lose weight that a lot of times the cellulite seems to smooth out quite a bit and not just from the loss of weight, but it seems like their skin seems to improve and in more ways than just cellulite, especially if you fix bile flow and the body can start to get rid of filth. People really see a lot of improvement with their skin.
Kinna: Lisa, another Lisa, oh wow! Westport, Indiana. I weigh 110 and I always have. I drink plenty of water, but still have cellulite. I’m baffled.
Will: I think maybe by now in the episode she might have like light shed on this issue. Cause you want to think of it as oh, it’s not just fat to lose. It’s like healthy cells to build, right?
Tony: Right and it is. You know one step to take, if you’re not, it’s not the biggest part of the formula I don’t think, but it’s such an easy step is to start doing some resistance training. Where you’re triggering the body to build new tissues. So do that along with helping your body bring in building blocks to build new tissues and all the sudden you’ve got new tissue. Good job!
Will: Uh huh.
Tony: You did it.
Tony: Good job!
Will: Yep, good job. So like resistance training, maybe making and eating bone broth kind of soups or supplement with collagen.
Tony: Yeah and we’ll put our recipe in the show notes. You can find it by going to kickitinthenuts.com and you hover over shows at the top and then you can get a few choices and one of them is episodes or show notes and so we’ll put that in the notes for that recipe cause bone broth is easy if you have a crock pot just toss in a bunch of stuff and it cooks for a day or so.
Will: Yeah, it really is easy. I always stood off it cause I thought it was going to be such an ordeal, but once I got a crockpot for Christmas it’s been smooth sailing.
Tony: Yeah, yeah. So, that’s an important first step because you don’t even need to fix digestion to get those nutrients cause it’s in liquid form. It’s like the cooking did the digestion for you. So, it’s a great first step to do. I want to get into another thing here that is a theory that I have shared with a few other guys because I really see this a lot with women that are low blood pressure with a very high urine pH. We teach people how to look at their own physiology in our free 4 week digestion course at kickitinthenuts.com or reading any of our books. Um, but I see this a lot with high urine pH and they’re often dealing with a lot of symptoms that come from low tissue calcium. So, I’ll explain this, but can you explain a little bit about why someone gets charley horses and why the calcium will get pulled out of tissues and stay in the bloodstream and stuff like that?
Will: A charley horse is basically a failure of muscle cells to sustain adequate energy to stay relaxed and we think of that as kind of backwards. Cause we think ah, it takes energy to flex a muscle, right? Yes, it does, but it also takes energy for the muscle not to contract and that’s why we see rigor mortis occur in a dead person when there’s no more enervation of the cells.
Tony: Minerals to help that out, right.
Will: Yeah and they just coom, lock right up super stiff. So that is like happening to a degree within any muscle that’s cramping. We’ll see that happen for various energy production problems, but also for one of those being a lack of calcium in those cells which is required to help maintain that proper ability to contract or relax. We’ll see calcium get pulled out of tissues by a few common culprits like sugars as well as Vitamin D.
Tony: Right, so, what happens is when sugar comes in calcium likes to follow sugar. So it’ll leave the tissue and it will go into the bloodstream where the sugar is and hang out there and have a good time. So when someone has a lot of calcium in their bloodstream, they tend to see a higher urine pH because the body is trying to pee out some of that calcium. It can’t deal with all that calcium floating around in the bloodstream and Vitamin D does the same thing. Like Vitamin D is very important. We need it to pull calcium out of the intestinal tract and into the bloodstream it’s absolutely necessary, but when people take it at the insane doses that doctors are telling people to take it now it pulls calcium not only out of the intestinal tract, but it pulls it out of the tissues too and it’s like a magnet and it holds the calcium in the blood like that. So there are a couple of reasons why that’s important to what we’re talking about here. What are we talking about?
Will & Kinna: Cellulite.
Tony: Totally forgot. Right. There’s a reason it’s important when we’re talking about cellulite. So this is the theory that I feel is a big player for some people and it appears that, well, when I was looking for stuff on this I found that there was a study done in 2001 by She et al, I think, that researchers discovered that when there was high active D in the bloodstream that it opens this calcium channel and calcium will pour into fat cells. And I had some other guys that were like we feel like this cellulite issue is calcium in the fat cells and so I heard this probably 4 or 5 years ago and so I pay attention to it when I have clients that complain about cellulite and their numbers almost always correspond with that to where they have all this excess calcium floating around. When I’m looking at this study that they did, their solution to that was that Vitamin D went high when calcium levels were low. And to us that makes sense because the body is just trying to pull in more calcium and so it absorbs more Vitamin D it makes it more active. Because we also see that when somebody has very high blood sugar that Vitamin D is almost always very low. The medical world has really screwed this up because they look at people who have heart disease and high blood sugar and Vitamin D is always low, so they’ll be like oh, well you just need to have more Vitamin D and then you won’t have cardiovascular disease or diabetes. So we’re going to cram Vitamin D in you, but the reality is that since all this sugar was pulling all the calcium out of the tissues and holding it in the blood that the body has reduced the amount of Vitamin D that’s going on so that it doesn’t pull even more in. So that’s kind of what we see happening and this makes sense when we look at this study cause their solution was just add more calcium into your diet and then Vitamin D levels will come down and you won’t be pouring all this calcium into fat cells and expanding those fat cells. But I think that we view it more as, you know, just don’t have so much calcium in the blood and then you won’t have this issue.
Will: Right and I think some people, I’ve known some people mistakenly think that what they need to do is to stop eating calcium if that’s happening and that is not what we’re saying.
Will: Cause you’re going to see your blood calcium levels go up if you do that cause your body needs some calcium in the blood for a lot of different functions.
Tony: It’s really important for a lot of stuff.
Will: Yeah, so don’t just stop. If you have like hypercalcemia in the blood like your numbers are going to get worse if you stop eating calcium, so things like cheese and eggs and even like boiled eggshells have like…
Tony: Really? I’ve never done that one.
Will: Yeah, Ray Peat talked about boiling eggshells, let them dry and then put them in a coffee grinder and it makes calcium carbonate, which I guess is the kind of calcium that you want to be taking.
Kinna: I’m gonna stop trying to get them out of my scramble then. I’m just going to leave them there.
Will & Tony: Right.
Will: Crunch away, but anyways like just to reemphasize what we were just saying the point is to try and minimize the things that are pulling calcium out of the tissues. Cause you want calcium in your diet, but you don’t want your tissues deplete of calcium, so things like sugar and excess Vitamin D supplementation create that problem, which creates, like you said, the excess calcium in the fat cells, but we also see that in degraded collagen and cataracts like very high calcium levels in those tissues. So when we look at cellulite there’s an intimate tie between both the fat and the collagen degradation.
Tony: Right, so let’s do this now. Let’s make this in plain English.
Tony: For people that we really annoyed today. Um, so here’s the perfect formula and I see this a lot, so I’m not saying that every body in this situation is going to have cellulite, but this just seems to be the perfect formula is for someone to have poor digestion so that they’re not able to fully break down proteins into amino acids and into rebuilding blocks. They’re not eating foods that contain enough collagen so that they can use that to rebuild. There’s a lack of Vitamin C going on and because there’s a lack of digestion, they have likely gravitated towards consuming more carbohydrates than proteins. Cause proteins are harder to digest and carbohydrates are very easy. So we see a lot where someone will just gravitate towards just eating a bunch of carbs and of course that’s going to create weight gain from the high insulin levels and all those carbohydrates are going to pull calcium out of the tissue. There’s going to be excess calcium floating around, so not only will they be peeing out that calcium and see the higher urine pH, but the body is going to be like, what else can I do with all this calcium? Hey, I’m gonna shove it in fat cells here’s some cellulite for you.
Will: Uh huh, yeah and then they might also be told like, oh, you’re low on Vitamin D because of insulin issues and then they take more Vitamin D and it pulls more calcium.
Tony: And it magnifies all that.
Will: Yeah, which also like there’s calcium rich tissues cause more fluid retention in general. Like not just in the fat cells, but in the interstitial space you’ll see more inflammation and fluid retention because of that high intercellular pH.
Tony: Right and that’s an easy thing for you to do. You can just check your urine pH it’s very simple and you can also look at if you have a herpes virus do you get cold sores a lot? Do you get charley horse type cramps? Do you catch a flu? Like if somebody calls you and they’re sick, do you get sick? Um, those are all signs of having low tissue calcium. A lot of menstrual cramps are really bad. You know those are all signs, so if that’s a situation for you, then you should take steps to reduce the amount of carbs that you’re eating. Which means you’re probably going to have to fix digestion or you won’t be able to gravitate towards more protein, more fat and less carbs.
Will: Uh huh.
Tony: And you can also take steps to push calcium down into the tissue. Like what, Will Schmidt?
Will: Um, well you could use certain amino acids like glycine would be a good call. Um, we’ve used fatty acids for that before also like to having it with like freshly ground flax seed or olive oil cold pressed.
Tony: Or even eating more salmon would help too, something like that.
Will: Yeah, if you’re too anabolic. So like you’ll want to confirm that that’s the case because if you’re too catabolic which could be another contributing factor then all of those could be a bad idea.
Will: Cause those fatty acids would push you further into a catabolic state, so the use of fatty acids would be useful if your urine pH is really high and you go through the digestive issues course and find out hey, I’m way too anabolic. So you got to know that first before you try to use that tactic, but safe bets would be like have bone broth soup, supplement collagen, a whole food source of Vitamin C. Those would be good regardless.
Tony: And the good news for you is let’s say for example that you understood anything that we said today.
Tony: Just in case you did.
Tony: Then it kind of makes sense. Oh, I don’t have cellulite because my mom had it. Which genetics can be a factor, but you can see that you can take steps to over come the way that your genes are expressing themselves right now. So, the good news is that no matter what situation is causing cellulite for you there are steps that you can take to improve the situation.
Will: Uh huh.
Kinna: All right. Well, we have one last question and this is actually off point. It’s an Ask Tony question from Tony’s blog post and it’s Denise, from Texas. Hi Tony! I’m reading your book, Done With Being Fat. I’m starting Chapter 7 and I want to lose about 20lbs. I’m a vegetarian that lives off carbs. What should I do? I don’t eat any seafood and now I’m leaving eggs alone because of the gases. Help!
Tony: So, I think the first is…
Kinna: Stop being a vegetarian.
Tony: Yeah, just don’t do that. Next question. But surely you heard earlier in this show when we talked about being vegetarian and you’ll first need to look at why are you being a vegetarian. Are you doing it because you think that’s the healthiest choice? And if it is, then you’ve probably finished reading the book by now and have got to the part where I really slam vegetarian stuff. So hopefully that help shed some light. Also, just to say, just so people know, the book, Done With Being Fat, is pretty much the same as, Kick Your Fat In The Nuts, so you don’t need to run out and read that if you’re already read Kick Your Fat In The Nuts. We just made another version for the doctors and nutrition people that learn from us, so that they could hand a book to their clients without saying here read Kick Your Fat In The Nuts.
Tony: So that’s what that is. Anyways, but if eggs are giving you a lot of gas, then you’re not digesting eggs well and eggs are pretty much the easiest animal protein to break down, so that will give you some indication that digestion…
Kinna: That you don’t have enough stomach acid maybe?
Kinna: Cause stomach acid breaks down proteins and bile flow is fats so?
Tony: Yeah and they both need to be there to fully digest food and that’s one thing that I see a lot with people um, that are trying to deal with these issues that come from a lack of digestion is that they’re not using enough HCL when they go and try to implement it. You know they say, I’m using HCL and I’m still not digesting well and when I ask what are they using, they’ll say well I’m using 1 capsule. The reality is that most humans make the equivalent to about 5, maybe a little bit more capsules of 550mg HCL. So If you’re using 1 capsule and let’s say that you’re loaded with bacteria in your stomach, which most people that have poor digestion do. If you’re lacking stomach acid you have bacteria on your stomach cause it has come in on the food that you eat and setup camp. So the waste from the bacteria is very alkaline, so now this acid is even less effective, so if you’re using 1 it’s probably like you’re using negative 1 if you’re filled with bacteria. So most people that I see that are trying to improve digestion once they move up to 5, the full dose of HCL like we teach in the free digestion course and in all of our books, once they move up to that, then they start to see results. It sounds like Denise could probably fix digestion and then if it was not against her beliefs, she could then try to implement some animal protein and then she’d be able to digest it better.
Will: Yeah and you’re not really gonna succeed until that happens, unless you just starve yourself.
Tony: Right, if you’re just going off will power and will power is never as good as we want it to be.
Tony: Because the body is screaming hey, I’m not getting what I need. You’re gonna have to put something….
Kinna: Unless you’re Will and you have power.
Will: Hey! Right.
Will: So yeah, she’s got to focus on fixing her digestion, so you can eat eggs and then reduce your carb intake in that order.
Tony: Right and if your goal is weight loss, the digestion becomes even more important because a lot of that indigested food is just turning into toxic junk and some junk can get stored in fat cells and make it harder to lose weight, so it’s really a priority and so make sure you take those steps.
Kinna: All right. So today’s show is brought to you by audible.com. Get a free audio book download and 30 day free trial at kickitinthenuts.com/audiobook. Over 150,000 titles to chose from for your iPhone, Android, kindle or MP3 player. And if you want to learn more about how to look at your chemistry, you can read any of Tony’s books or take the free 4 week digestion course at kickitinthenuts.com. Or you can head on over to Will Schmidt’s page mybodyofknowledge.net and he’s got lots of great ideas and blogs and exercises and all kinds of fun stuff on there.
Tony: And for those of you who are always telling us that they really love this information and they’re kind of like they want to be a coach, the coach course is coming!
Tony: Pretty close. It’s really, like we’ve done so much, like I want to take it.
Tony: It’s like really awesome. So that’s coming pretty soon so…..
Will: And the protein powder!
Tony: Oh yeah.
Will: That’s shipping this week.
Kinna: And the cookbook.
Tony: We didn’t even talk about the protein powder. We put collagen in it for this very purpose.
Will: I was so excited about it and Vitamin C.
Tony: Right. So that’s going to be your decelluliter.
Kinna: Oh, you should’ve put that in the title. That would sell like hot cakes.
Will: We could’ve just called it the decelluliter of protein.
Kinna: Kick your cellulite in the nuts.
Tony: Yes. So stay tuned for that if you’re not signed up for our newsletter make sure that you’re signed up cause when the coach course opens we’re only going to be able to take registration for short periods at a time when we do it openly, so make sure that you’re tuned in so you know what’s up.
Kinna: All right. Buh bye.
Will: Bye bye.
Download Our Free Digestion Assessment Guide
Sign up to receive our free Digestion Checklist that could help you improve your digestive issues.